<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Who cares what’s most realistic. It’s fantasy sports <div><br></div><div>We give same weighting to SB as dingers. That’s wrong. <br><br><div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Feb 12, 2019, at 9:14 AM, Frank Luby via Announce <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div class="ydpcb4c3f8eyahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"><div></div>
<div>Good points, Mark.</div><div><br></div><div>This version re-sorts the right-hand data to make Mark's points clear.</div><div><br></div>
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On Tuesday, February 12, 2019, 8:54:09 AM CST, springkerb <<a href="mailto:springkerb@aol.com">springkerb@aol.com</a>> wrote:
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<div><div id="ydp2e7e82b6yiv3731181299"><div><div>To me, the 2x saves version does a better job of identifying pitchers who can reliably hold a lead--which I think is what we're trying to measure here. For example, the version that values saves and holds equally says that Jose Alvarado is third in the league. He's a good reliever, but I don't think he was more reliablelast year than Trienen or Chapman. Similarly, the equally weighted version says the Chaz Roe (Chaz Roe?) was the sixth most reliable holder of leads in the AL. That's nuts.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>In general, major league managers use their best relievers later in the games, and that makes sense, since holding a lead gets more valuable later in the game. A clean ninth inning improves the team's likelihood of winning more when there are fewer innings left to play. So, at least to my eye, the 2x approach does a better job of rewarding better relievers. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Mark</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="ydp2e7e82b6yiv3731181299composer_signature"><div style="font-size:85%;color:#575757;">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone</div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div class="ydp2e7e82b6yiv3731181299yqt4160398005" id="ydp2e7e82b6yiv3731181299yqt50957"><div style="font-size:100%;color:#000000;"><div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: JOHN FRUIT <<a href="mailto:jtfruit@msn.com">jtfruit@msn.com</a>> </div><div>Date: 2/12/19 5:19 AM (GMT-06:00) </div><div>To: USML Announcements <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>>, Frank Luby <<a href="mailto:zachfehsvater@yahoo.com">zachfehsvater@yahoo.com</a>>, Andy Klein <<a href="mailto:anrklein@gmail.com">anrklein@gmail.com</a>> </div><div>Cc: springkerb <<a href="mailto:springkerb@aol.com">springkerb@aol.com</a>> </div><div>Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux </div><div><br clear="none"></div></div>
<div><font face="sans-serif">What's apparent is that the 2x saves method seems to put even more statistical emphasis on the saves category, kinda defeating the purpose.</font></div>
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<div>From: springkerb via Announce <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>> </div>
<div>Date: 2/11/19 10:15 PM (GMT-06:00) </div>
<div>To: Frank Luby <<a href="mailto:zachfehsvater@yahoo.com">zachfehsvater@yahoo.com</a>>, Andy Klein <<a href="mailto:anrklein@gmail.com">anrklein@gmail.com</a>>, USML Announcements <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>>
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<div>Cc: springkerb <<a href="mailto:springkerb@aol.com">springkerb@aol.com</a>> </div>
<div>Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux </div>
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<div>Cool. It's an interesting comparison.</div>
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<div>From: Frank Luby <<a href="mailto:zachfehsvater@yahoo.com">zachfehsvater@yahoo.com</a>> </div>
<div>Date: 2/11/19 10:02 PM (GMT-06:00) </div>
<div>To: Andy Klein <<a href="mailto:anrklein@gmail.com">anrklein@gmail.com</a>>, USML Announcements <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>> </div>
<div>Cc: springkerb <<a href="mailto:springkerb@aol.com">springkerb@aol.com</a>> </div>
<div>Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux </div>
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<div>To throw some data into this discussion, here are the top 50 relievers in the AL last season ranked by the SV+HLD method and the 2xSV+HLD, in a side by side comparison ...</div>
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<div>On Monday, February 11, 2019, 9:44:36 PM CST, springkerb via Announce <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>> wrote:
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<div>I'd like you to reconsider the ratio. There are about twice as many holds as saves. Weighting them equally would actually make the 7th and 8th inning guys more valuable than closers, which just doesn't seem right.</div>
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<div>-------- Original message --------</div>
<div>From: Andy Klein <<a href="mailto:anrklein@gmail.com">anrklein@gmail.com</a>> </div>
<div>Date: 2/11/19 7:33 PM (GMT-06:00) </div>
<div>To: USML Announcements <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>> </div>
<div>Cc: springkerb <<a href="mailto:springkerb@aol.com">springkerb@aol.com</a>> </div>
<div>Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux </div>
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<div dir="ltr">Nope ... we talked about it, but never voted on it. I'm actually advocating Saves + Holds, not 2XSaves + Holds. I'm fine with 2020 implementation. I'll wait another day and then make a formal proposal.
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<div class="ydp2e7e82b6yiv3731181299ydp49dd72eayiv0167555089gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 7:02 PM springkerb via Announce <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:announce@usml.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">announce@usml.net</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div>See my other email. Thought thiswas a done deal for this year.</div>
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<div>-------- Original message --------</div>
<div>From: Andy Klein <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:anrklein@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">anrklein@gmail.com</a>>
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<div>Date: 2/11/19 4:16 PM (GMT-06:00) </div>
<div>To: USML Announcements <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:announce@usml.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">announce@usml.net</a>>
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<div>Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux </div>
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<div dir="ltr">That's four quick positive responses. Eager to hear others ... and whether people would generally prefer to implement in 2020.
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<div class="ydp2e7e82b6yiv3731181299ydp49dd72eayiv0167555089gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 5:01 PM JOHN FRUIT <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:jtfruit@msn.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">jtfruit@msn.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div><font face="sans-serif">Yeah, Josh Hader struck out like 50 Cubs in 10+ innings of work and had nary a save.</font></div>
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<div>-------- Original message --------</div>
<div>From: Frank Luby via Announce <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:announce@usml.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">announce@usml.net</a>>
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<div>Date: 2/11/19 3:38 PM (GMT-06:00) </div>
<div>To: USML Announcements <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:announce@usml.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">announce@usml.net</a>>
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<div>Cc: Frank Luby <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:zachfehsvater@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">zachfehsvater@yahoo.com</a>>
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<div>Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux </div>
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What’s a closer ...?<br clear="none">
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Seriously though, I’m with Andy. Gives a purpose and a strategy to those many many pitchers I refer to as DNH guys (as in “do no harm”).<br clear="none">
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I would be fine with immediate implementation.<br clear="none">
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> On Feb 11, 2019, at 3:25 PM, Andy Klein <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:anrklein@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">anrklein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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> I proposed this last spring and received a distinctly unenthusiastic response. But I am re-proposing that we move to Saves + Holds as a category instead of just Saves. That better reflects the reality of MLB pitching value today. It also would end what
is, IMHO, an inordinate focus on playing the "closer carousel" in our league. <br clear="none">
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> I would be up for doing this immediately -- and I say that as someone who will otherwise retain a closer. But I suppose the typical way of doing this would be to make it effective next season.<br clear="none">
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> Last year, we agreed to implement the change if we voted to do so by mid-season. But the proposal died for lack of interest.<br clear="none">
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> Thoughts?<br clear="none">
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> -Andy<br clear="none">
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