<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">That’s assuming that everyone’s goal is to value saves and holds equally important. From my perspective, I’d like to recognize holds as having some value but I still view saves more important for several reasons. Like it or not but saves are an official statistic of MLB but I don’t believe holds are. Only 1 save can be given out in a game whereas more than 1 hold can be given. Baseball is a tradition bound game more than most sports and the save and closer has the tradition behind it whereas holds do not. If we all want to go total saber, we’d get rid of Wins and BA too. So in sum if we make a change, I’m in favor of weighting saves more heavily. And no on future requests to have a WAR or OPS+ category! :-)<div><br></div><div>Jim<br><br><div id="AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Feb 12, 2019, at 9:49 AM, Blocker, Mark B. via Announce <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">Want to give this more thought, but I think I agree with John’s point that 2x saves puts too much emphasis on saves and defeats our goal of treating holds as equally important.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">Also, here are the options Onroto currently allows. I believe the math on option two works out the same as what some have proposed on a relative basis:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">HOSV (Holds + Saves)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D">SAVES2 (Saves + Holds / 2)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">MARK B. BLOCKER</span></b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
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<b>SIDLEY AUSTIN LLP<br>
</b>+1 312 853 6097<br>
<a href="mailto:mblocker@sidley.com" title="Click to send email to Blocker, Mark B.">mblocker@sidley.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="font-size:14.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Announce <<a href="mailto:announce-bounces@usml.net">announce-bounces@usml.net</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bill Strotman via Announce<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, February 12, 2019 9:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> USML Announcements <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Bill Strotman <<a href="mailto:bbuddhas@aol.com">bbuddhas@aol.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Who cares what’s most realistic. It’s fantasy sports <o:p></o:p></p>
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We give same weighting to SB as dingers. That’s wrong. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
On Feb 12, 2019, at 9:14 AM, Frank Luby via Announce <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Good points, Mark.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">This version re-sorts the right-hand data to make Mark's points clear.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">On Tuesday, February 12, 2019, 8:54:09 AM CST, springkerb <<a href="mailto:springkerb@aol.com">springkerb@aol.com</a>> wrote:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">To me, the 2x saves version does a better job of identifying pitchers who can reliably hold a lead--which I think is what we're trying
to measure here. For example, the version that values saves and holds equally says that Jose Alvarado is third in the league. He's a good reliever, but I don't think he was more reliablelast year than Trienen or Chapman. Similarly, the equally weighted
version says the Chaz Roe (Chaz Roe?) was the sixth most reliable holder of leads in the AL. That's nuts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">In general, major league managers use their best relievers later in the games, and that makes sense, since holding a lead gets more
valuable later in the game. A clean ninth inning improves the team's likelihood of winning more when there are fewer innings left to play. So, at least to my eye, the 2x approach does a better job of rewarding better relievers. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#575757">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">From: JOHN FRUIT <<a href="mailto:jtfruit@msn.com">jtfruit@msn.com</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Date: 2/12/19 5:19 AM (GMT-06:00)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">To: USML Announcements <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>>, Frank Luby <<a href="mailto:zachfehsvater@yahoo.com">zachfehsvater@yahoo.com</a>>,
Andy Klein <<a href="mailto:anrklein@gmail.com">anrklein@gmail.com</a>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Cc: springkerb <<a href="mailto:springkerb@aol.com">springkerb@aol.com</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A">What's apparent is that the 2x saves method seems to put even more statistical emphasis on the saves category, kinda defeating the purpose.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#575757">Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">-------- Original message --------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">From: springkerb via Announce <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Date: 2/11/19 10:15 PM (GMT-06:00)
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">To: Frank Luby <<a href="mailto:zachfehsvater@yahoo.com">zachfehsvater@yahoo.com</a>>, Andy Klein <<a href="mailto:anrklein@gmail.com">anrklein@gmail.com</a>>,
USML Announcements <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>> <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Cc: springkerb <<a href="mailto:springkerb@aol.com">springkerb@aol.com</a>>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Cool. It's an interesting comparison.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#575757">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">From: Frank Luby <<a href="mailto:zachfehsvater@yahoo.com">zachfehsvater@yahoo.com</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Date: 2/11/19 10:02 PM (GMT-06:00)
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">To: Andy Klein <<a href="mailto:anrklein@gmail.com">anrklein@gmail.com</a>>, USML Announcements <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Cc: springkerb <<a href="mailto:springkerb@aol.com">springkerb@aol.com</a>>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">To throw some data into this discussion, here are the top 50 relievers in the AL last season ranked by the SV+HLD method and the 2xSV+HLD,
in a side by side comparison ...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">On Monday, February 11, 2019, 9:44:36 PM CST, springkerb via Announce <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>> wrote:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">I'd like you to reconsider the ratio. There are about twice as many holds as saves. Weighting them equally would actually make the
7th and 8th inning guys more valuable than closers, which just doesn't seem right.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#575757">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">-------- Original message --------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">From: Andy Klein <<a href="mailto:anrklein@gmail.com">anrklein@gmail.com</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Date: 2/11/19 7:33 PM (GMT-06:00)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">To: USML Announcements <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net">announce@usml.net</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Cc: springkerb <<a href="mailto:springkerb@aol.com">springkerb@aol.com</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Nope ... we talked about it, but never voted on it. I'm actually advocating Saves + Holds, not 2XSaves + Holds. I'm fine with 2020
implementation. I'll wait another day and then make a formal proposal. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">-Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 7:02 PM springkerb via Announce <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net" target="_blank">announce@usml.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">See my other email. Thought thiswas a done deal for this year.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Mark<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id="ydp2e7e82b6yiv3731181299ydp49dd72eayiv0167555089gmail-m_-2377757529899590271composer_signature">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#575757">Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S®6 active, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">-------- Original message --------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">From: Andy Klein <<a href="mailto:anrklein@gmail.com" target="_blank">anrklein@gmail.com</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Date: 2/11/19 4:16 PM (GMT-06:00)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">To: USML Announcements <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net" target="_blank">announce@usml.net</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">That's four quick positive responses. Eager to hear others ... and whether people would generally prefer to implement in 2020.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">-Andy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 5:01 PM JOHN FRUIT <<a href="mailto:jtfruit@msn.com" target="_blank">jtfruit@msn.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Yeah, Josh Hader struck out like 50 Cubs in 10+ innings of work and had nary a save.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#575757">Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">-------- Original message --------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">From: Frank Luby via Announce <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net" target="_blank">announce@usml.net</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Date: 2/11/19 3:38 PM (GMT-06:00)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">To: USML Announcements <<a href="mailto:announce@usml.net" target="_blank">announce@usml.net</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Cc: Frank Luby <<a href="mailto:zachfehsvater@yahoo.com" target="_blank">zachfehsvater@yahoo.com</a>>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Subject: Re: [USML Announce] Saves + Holds Redux
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">What’s a closer ...?<br>
<br>
Seriously though, I’m with Andy. Gives a purpose and a strategy to those many many pitchers I refer to as DNH guys (as in “do no harm”).<br>
<br>
I would be fine with immediate implementation.<br>
<br>
- Frank<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
> On Feb 11, 2019, at 3:25 PM, Andy Klein <<a href="mailto:anrklein@gmail.com" target="_blank">anrklein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> I proposed this last spring and received a distinctly unenthusiastic response. But I am re-proposing that we move to Saves + Holds as a category instead of just Saves. That better reflects the reality of MLB pitching value today. It also would end what
is, IMHO, an inordinate focus on playing the "closer carousel" in our league. <br>
> <br>
> I would be up for doing this immediately -- and I say that as someone who will otherwise retain a closer. But I suppose the typical way of doing this would be to make it effective next season.<br>
> <br>
> Last year, we agreed to implement the change if we voted to do so by mid-season. But the proposal died for lack of interest.<br>
> <br>
> Thoughts?<br>
> <br>
> -Andy<br>
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